3 Row SUV's?

"Kailand09" (kailand09) 12/05/2018 at 07:29 • Filed to: None

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So I need to consult Oppo on a car purchase. I’m looking to purchase a 3 row SUV with a 5,000lb tow rating. We’re aiming to buy used, preferably under 40k miles and newer, 2017 or newer.

The hope is to purchase for $25k or less, however with the perfect package and correct options we’d consider bumping up to $30k.

Needs: AWD, 6-7 seats, 5k tow rating, automatic headlights (nice feature honestly)

Wants: key-less entry/start, sun roof, remote start

Fringe wants - lane keep assist, blind spot monitoring

No pickups / minivans, don’t want to go full size truck.

Our choices seem to be - Explorer, Durango, Traverse, Atlas, Highlander, Santa Fe, Sorrento, Pilot, Pathfinder, Ascent (I’ve heard the CVT can’t really keep up with towing though).

Anything I may be missing as an option? Any opinions on reliability or experiences with a specific model?

Rainbow > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 07:43

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I’ve driven a Traverse and my parents own an Explorer. I think I *slightly* prefer the Traverse, but then again, I think it was a higher trim and the Explorer is a base model. So.... I’m not really helping here, am I?

Kailand09 > Rainbow 12/05/2018 at 07:50

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Haha, it’s some insight for sure. Was it the new traverse? I drove an Enclave, and thought it was a bit bumpier and louder than the Atlas I drove. I really like the look and some of the base features of the Traverse though, so I’m not sure.

I’m a bit weary of the first model year of the car too.

So far I really like the idea of a Durango. They can be had at a great price, even R/T’s are under $30k.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 07:51

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diesel toerag touareg it can tow the world

over 7000 lbs

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 07:52

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I have seen good reviews of the 5.7v8 Durango if you’re Ok with the interior and possible FCA unreliability problems.

Have you considered a Chevy Tahoe or C Yukon as well or are they more expensive?

Also, from what I’ve learned( others with more knowledge on the subject can confirm or correct me) - If you want to tow 5000 you should choose a vehicle with max tow greater than 5000. if you’re towing something   like 3000 then a vehicle with max tow rating of 5000 is fine.

Rainbow > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 07:52

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It was actually the facelifted first-gen, so probably very different from what you’re looking into.

That said, Durangos are badass. At least in the looks department, anyway.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 07:58

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A Durango prolly ticks alll those boxes, but you might be pished to find a 17+ for under 30k 

adamftw > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:16

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Out of all those, Durango. Especially if you plan on towing more than “once in a blue moon. ”

Arrivederci > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:17

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Looked at some of these when buying my wife’s car last year, though we were looking for something smaller, though there was some overlap.

The Highlander, Pilot and CX9 are the class of the large CUV, but you’ll have to strip out the CX9 as it doesn’t tow enough. The Highlander and Pilot can both be equipped to tow that much, but will be priced a lot higher than much of the competition.

We ended up getting my wife a 2017 Kia Sorento EX 2.oT AWD as we didn’t need the third row (only V6 Sorento’s have it) or a larger tow rating. I will say when we looked at third row cars, it was pretty tight back there, so I don’t know how often you’ll have someone riding back there. In lieu of the third row, we get a pretty kickass cubby system under the floor and a very large trunk. In a little over a year of ownership, it has been flawless - cheap to buy, operate, maintain, and zero issues. Buying a Highlander or Pilot with the same options would’ve cost us about $10k more. Literally the only downside is that you have to set foot in a Kia dealership to buy it, and that experience blows.

The Sorento is the same as the Santa Fe Sport and our specific model is the same as the 2.0T Sport; however the Santa Fe Sport doesn’t come with a third row, so you’d need the larger Santa Fe, which is now called the Santa Fe XL or something similarly silly.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:21

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Honestly the only true SUV on that list is the Durango...still BOF RWD based platform. It’s also the best one of the bunch by limited experience (no idea on reliability though) with the largest interior. This would also be the most competent towing vehicle here.

The Traverse is probably my 2nd choice on the list...had one as a rental and it was just a competent nice vehicle all around.

The Explorer is fine too, though I feel like the interior is more cramped than the Durango or Traverse.

The second row on the Ascent and Atlas is really cramped in my opinion.

Don’t have much experience with the others.

Kailand09 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 12/05/2018 at 08:21

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Thanks for the insight. We do plan to really tow under 4k, so i kinda factored that in.

Tahoe is more expensive and a bit too big.

Any input on examples of unreliability for the Durango? I've read the engine is pretty good and the newer ZF 8 speed is very well regarded. Is it mostly interior/ electronic?

Kailand09 > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 12/05/2018 at 08:22

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Any opinions on reliability of the Durango? I could probably drop down to 16 if necessary, it does seem like a very compelling car in the segment.

Kailand09 > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 12/05/2018 at 08:25

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This is intriguing. Any ideas about reliability?

Kailand09 > Arrivederci 12/05/2018 at 08:29

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Thanks for the input. The price is really compelling on the Hyundai and Kia. A year ago we drove the bigger Santa Fe and both really liked it. The $10k savings is a big deal.

Kailand09 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 12/05/2018 at 08:34

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Thanks for the feedback. Happy to hear the traverse was well regarded.

Honestly i like the traverse, but definitely agree with the Durango being the most truck like, and best o n paper. Can't wait to test drive.

Kailand09 > adamftw 12/05/2018 at 08:34

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This is the overwhelming response. Interesting.

Any thoughts on reliability?

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:34

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The dangos are nice rides. The RT trim is my pick. They should be able to be picked up for under 30. Don’t forget to check new ones too, you might get incentives that print the prices in line with used. I wouldn’t worry too much about the reliability, dodge has their truck game on point and has for some time. Of your list, thr dango is the way to go. Plenty of power and pretty comfortable inside. We went the pacifica route for our family hauler needs, but I shopped the Durango’s too. But we needed 8 seats. And I dont  tow with mine.  I’ve got my little Dakota for that.  

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:36

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None lol. I don’t really know how reliable they are but I do know that they are super expensive to fix if something does go wrong

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:38

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The V10 Touareg, none.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:50

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I honestly can’t speak about reliability, havent really driven one either for that matter. It just seems to tick all your boxes 

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:51

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General FCA thing. of course some models and some components (engine, trans) are more reliable than others. I just wouldn ’t expect it to be a Highlander or Pilot when it comes to reliability.

Arrivederci > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 08:53

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Ours, for example, had a MSRP of roughly $35 k when new , but we found it in late 2017 as a factory demo that some Kia regional director was driving around. Paid $24k with 18k miles on it and full transfer of the 10year/100k warranty. That’s one thing you might need to be careful on if buying a used Kia or Hyundai - it doesn’t always transfer.

The one we bought also came really well-equipped - the EX trim comes with leather and heated seats, CarPlay (I think Android Auto maybe now too), dual zone climate control and digital dash. Other options were remote start, power liftgate, 110V outlets, etc.

The AWD system is pretty good as well - it’s typical FWD-based, but gives the driver an option to lock the center diff for speeds below 20mph if you get bogged down in something slick.    

TheRealBicycleBuck > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 09:00

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We owned a 2013 Explorer with most of the bells and whistles. I’m not a fan of big SUVs, but I have to admit, it was nice. We only had a few issues and I think they were all related to repairs that weren’t done correctly. All of the problems were associated with the backup camera and blind spot monitoring system.

My wife picked the Explorer because of the space in the back with the third row up. When the third row is up, i t creates a deep well at the very back which was perfect for hauling around the junk she had to carry with her for work.

We had several very long towing adventures and it performed like a champ, even through the rolling hills of southeast Oklahoma and the heat of south Texas.

That pic is a bit of a setup. We really only pulled the car out to the road so I could hook it up to the giant U-Haul truck. :) But we did make multiple trips with the largest U-Haul trailer from Oklahoma City to Baton Rouge and another from Brownsville, Texas to Baton Rouge. The Explorer happily pulled the trailer with no fuss at all.

The Explorer died when we were rear-ended while pulling the last load from my mom’s house. The trailer basically center-punched the Explorer, pushing the floor forward and pulling in the sides. They would have to replaced the floor from the front seats back and straighten out both sides. As you can guess, it was totalled.

We haven’t replaced it yet since I’m in a rental for work and she can drive my car. When we do buy another, it will probably be another Explorer.

Kailand09 > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/05/2018 at 09:03

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This is great information. Real life tow examples are hard to come by and a big concern of mine. Especially with the Hyundai or Atlas even, where the brand doesn't have the experience ofa pickup line.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 09:21

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Ours was the 3.5L v-6, but it didn’t have a towing package when we bought it , but I had them put on a factory tow bumper with the correct towing harness when it was rear-ended the first time. I’m sure it would perform even better with the rest of the package - an oil cooler and the towing button which switches the management software into towing mode. There’s lots of information out there about the towing options. There are a lot of them out there with 4wd and a hitch. Hold out for one with the factory tow package.

Tapas > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 09:29

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Have you considered a 2016 4Runner?

I think it tows 4700 lbs and will come out to around $30k.

Textured Soy Protein > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 12/05/2018 at 09:31

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The Durango is on the same unibody platform as the Grand Cherokee and old Mercedes ML. It’s just a longitudinally mounted engine instead of transverse like the others. 

adamftw > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 09:34

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It’s a FCA product, but its an old (and fairly simple)  platform. I wouldn't put it next to a 4Runner in terms of reliability but I don't see any reason why it would be a headache.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Textured Soy Protein 12/05/2018 at 09:37

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Hmm...didn’t know that. I could have sworn it was still body on frame.

7:07 > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 09:58

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Alex from Alex on autos bought a Durango citadel 5.7L for his personal use, mostly because of towing performance and capacity:

You should be able to find and AWD model in your price range. Honestly, I love the things and would love an SRT (tows 8700 lbs!) but those are $$$

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 10:02

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cant help you there.. but i think the diesels are plenty solid... i suspect the smaller engined gas powered ones are too

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/05/2018 at 10:07

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Ford’s blind-spot monitoring and reverse sensors have always seemed to be wonky as hell. If you don’t rely on them, you won’t really have a problem, just an annoying BEEP every single time the system detects a failure and shuts it down.

Textured Soy Protein > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 12/05/2018 at 10:11

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The first two generations of Durango were based on the Dakota, but the current one is a long wheelbase Grand Cherokee. It’s even built in the same plant as the Grand Cherokee.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 10:14

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No minivans, yet looking at a whole list of sliderless minivans.....

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 10:15

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Take care of it, it will take care of you.

Treat it like most Mopar owners, it will give you issue.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Textured Soy Protein 12/05/2018 at 10:16

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Yea, just got done researching it a bit and apparently the next gen Durango is rumored to be going back to body on frame sharing the Ram 1500 frame.

TheRealBicycleBuck > winterlegacy, here 'till the end 12/05/2018 at 10:16

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One of the sensors in ours failed when we were four hours from home on a Sunday afternoon. I had to listen to that beep every couple of minutes for four hours. We tried to get help from a mechanic. We tried to get help from a dealership. We tried to find an answer on the internet. We tried to figure out which fuse to pull. It was Sunday. Nobody was around to help. In the end, I just suffered. Everyone else in the car put on their headphones....

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > TheRealBicycleBuck 12/05/2018 at 10:23

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The reverse sensors in my mother’s Mariner have failed... mostly. Half the time they work, half the time they don’t. When they do work, they’re only useful on walls that are as tall as the vehicle itself because of how poorly aligned they are now.

superhead > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 10:50

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We just bought a 2015 Durango SXT Rallye for the wife . I never thought I’d own a Dodge but after a bunch of looking around at 3-row crossovers it seems to offer some of the best bang for your buck. Haven’t had it long enough to comment on reliability but my research suggests that the drivetrain is pretty good and usually the issues are just cosmetic stuff. The Pentastar is rated for 6,200 lbs with the factory towing package. Without the package it’s 3,500 lbs. It’s a bit misleading because most of the reviews I read stated 6,200 lbs without the tow package caveat. That being said I don’t really tow anything so the 3,500 lbs is fine for my needs. It drives pretty well for its size and while some people complain about the Pentastar not being enough engine, I haven’t found it to be lacking at all. Plenty of power for passing and merging. The 8-speed can be slightly jerky at very low speeds, like for example a rolling stop, but overall is very nice and smooth. Like others have stated it’s RWD based and has a 50/50 weight distribution. Uconnect is... fine. Lots of reviews praise it highly but I just find it adequate. It’s a bit slow and some of the controls are a bit buried, but the main controls like A/C fan speed, temp, and volume are all still physical knobs/buttons so that’s nice. I’m a bit biased because my car is a 2018 Fiesta ST with Android Auto, so Uconnect in comparison seems a bit antiquated, but I still wouldn’t say it’s bad. I personally find the Durangos to be pretty attractive as well, especially in the paint-matched trims, like the Rallye or GT. Overall so far we’re very happy with it.

Here’s a pic

nermal > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 10:53

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Are you planning on loading it down with 6 people AND towing 5k lbs at the same time?

If so, you’re gonna have a bad time with any of the smaller options . The weight of all of the people + stuff + trailer will overload the suspension and make the experience.... poor.

Look into something bigger. Tahoe, Expedition, Toyota Sequoia or Nissan Armada. They’re all based on 1500 trucks, so will be able to handle being loaded down better.

Or just suck it up and get a diesel truck. Parking in confined spaces is over rated. 

superhead > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 12/05/2018 at 10:53

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Current gen Durango is unibody. But yes it is RWD based unlike pretty much all the other crossovers.

Kailand09 > nermal 12/05/2018 at 13:04

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5,000 lbs is well over our intended tow load, I picked 5k knowing I’d stay well below fully loaded. It is a good thing to point out though.

Kailand09 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 12/05/2018 at 13:06

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You can’t deny a mini van drives entirely different.

We both hate the way they drive.

Kailand09 > Tapas 12/05/2018 at 13:08

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We did, but I just rented one and we both very much disliked it.

I find to be overly floaty and under damped. Center of gravity seems super high.

I was disappointed too, because i think they look really nice.

Maybe we'll try again.

Kailand09 > superhead 12/05/2018 at 13:11

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Thanks a bunch. You’re hitting on a lot of the same opinions I have been forming.

Everything seems to say the drive train should be solid, which is most important really.

Do you have any of the safety features?

Also I DD a FoST, so glad to hear from someone with a similar mind.

superhead > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 13:53

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Only safety features are the backup camera and rear parking sensors. Most of the more advanced stuff was added in later years, although I think automatic collision detection and braking was available as an option in 2015.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/05/2018 at 16:06

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After driving numerous 3rd row CUVs and numerous minivans, they all feel about the same. The minivans tend to ride better and get better real world mileage though.

Kailand09 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 12/06/2018 at 19:58

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We’ll have to agree to disagree. Minivan handles way worse in my opinion, turning diameter is feet larger, seating position completely different.

I personally don't see how they compare any more similar than a Challenger does a 300.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/07/2018 at 07:10

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What minivan did you drive? The Grand Caravan has a 19.5' turning circle, shorter than all the vehicles you listed except the Durango (18.55') / Santa Fe (18.45') /Sorrento (18.6') . The Odyssey bests all of them at 18.3', with the Sienna close behind at 18.7' . They also offer better seating layout assuming you actually plan on using all 7 seats and far better ride quality.

You realize a Challenger and a 300 are almost the same vehicle right? The 300 being an extended version of the  same L chassis, the same way modern CUVs are the same as modern minivans, they just do away with the most useful feature for sake of hiding from the very image they’ve taken on.

I’m sorry, I’m just trying to wrap my head around why people compromise on everything when they could just buy the correct tool for the job.

Kailand09 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 12/21/2018 at 18:32

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If you seriously think the 300 and the challenger handle the same just because the chassis is the same (but extended) , I don’t know how to rationalize with you.

You’re arguing that someone has a predisposition based on image, when you yourself are failing to see the differences based on your own issue with an SUV’s image.

The compromise is driving dynamics, in many cases turning radius (except as you point out the more modern models are improved). There’s also towing capacity (one of my main needs) , generally faster, ground clearance, and many other factors to consider that an SUV is plain better at.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/22/2018 at 07:39

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You’re correct the compromise is driving dynamics and useful ness.

1. You add ride height, which makes them more rolly. They counter this with stiffer suspension, which makes them ride rough. So for your couple inches of ground clearance, or less in most cases ( Which you’ll never actually use anyway ), you get a worse handling vehicle that rides terrible.

2. You keep saying turning radius, yet all the modern minivans except Mopars turn tighter than any 3 row CUV you’ve listed.

3. Modern minivans all are capable of towing 3500lbs in stock trim. Other than the Durango and Atlas, the 3 row CUVs you’ve listed all start at 1500lbs in stock form ( most cap at 3500 lbs with tow packages ).

4. Modern minivans are as fast/faster than everything you’ve listed other than the EB Explorer and V8 Durango.

5. Ground clearance is within 1.5" between the bunch. The Sedona for example rides at 6.9", the highest CUV is Explorer at 8.3". The other CUVs all hover between 7" and 8". At that point if you’re getting stuck, it’s not a clearance issue, it’s a tire issue.

6. The seating layout and doors makes the 3rd row useless in most and damn hard to use in the rest, whereas the minivan’s sliders makes getting in and out a breeze, while eliminating your kids losing a door into the car parked next to you.

Literally the only option ( I say option because a lot of these CUVs have to be optioned with it ) these CUVs offer that minivans don’t is AWD, but then again, there’s the Sienna AWD.

We can go round and round all day, but at the end of the day, everything you’re looking at is just a less useful/less capable/worse driving minivan.

Kailand09 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 12/22/2018 at 16:09

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You’re entirely incorrect. If you’re going to pick the Odyssey, the Pilot is faster. I am not going to waste my time looking up every single car in the class.

Not all minivans have a better turning radius than all of the CUV’s.

I wrote in my post, 5,000 lb tow rating. Which is what most 3 row CUV’s are capable of. Off the top of my head, most minivans do not offer this capability.

As I said, I prefer a sportier driving vehicle that can tow 5000 lbs. Even if I wanted only a 3500 lb. tow rating, I wouldn’t buy the minivan because of driving dynamics. The third row for me is a fringe benefit in rare occasions, so I don’t need it to be a “breeze” to get in and out of.

You’re right, this could go around all day, because we have different things we’re looking for in a vehicle. You are just as biased as I am, and it’s as ridiculous as everyone who hates minivans because of image to hate CUV’s now because they aren’t cool.

You should take your sarcasm away from a post that was very specific in what I wanted, where you offered no actual constructive feedback relevant to the post.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/26/2018 at 07:02

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I would think giving you all the specs perfectly spelled out on the screen in one place would be helpful, I took the time to look it up so you don’t have to, it’s all right here on this page.

“ Wasting one’s time” looking up specs and actually testing vehicles is how one makes an informed decision about what they’re buying. That’s not bias, it’s using the information available.

I’m sorry I tried to give you valid info and specs based on facts, so you didn’t buy something assuming it could do things it cannot , if that’s not the kind of constructive feedback that’s useful to you, then how about this: Hur d ur....... buy Durango because V8........ ‘Merica.

Kailand09 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 12/28/2018 at 09:15

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Very nice, name calling and making assumptions. That will help your case.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/28/2018 at 10:05

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Where exactly was this name calling?

And since when is giving facts “making assumptions”?

Trying to help you and give you legit info, I’m sorry it goes against your own assumptions.

Buy what you want, clearly the facts and specs don’t actually matter.

Kailand09 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 12/28/2018 at 13:19

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“hur dur...” ‘Merica... you’re just turning to tired insults, assuming I’m buying a car only because of where it was made (which I didn’t even say anywhere I am buying a Durango).

My point to adding nothing to the conversation is that I am entirely clear that I do not want a minivan, plain and simple. Your initial comment was a stab at what I want without any further addition to the conversation (which is what I was referring to).

Just because you have a hard on for vans doesn’t mean everyone else has to. You’re wrong, not everything is superior in a minivan, deal with it.

There’s a reason people buy them, and a reason the manufacturers are building more and more models of CUV/SUV’s.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Kailand09 12/28/2018 at 16:06

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Like I said, buy what you want. Make sure you take the time to check the specs first, The Durango and the Atlas are the only CUVs that have the tow rating you’re looking for in stock trim, the rest all top 3500 or less fully spec’d, very few can actually handle 5k in top tow form .